Russian point of view - Kosovo

"RUSSIAN POINT OF VIEW - KOSOVO

The program included:

Borislav Milosevic, the former Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Yugoslavia in Russia

Albert Andiev, a volunteer who fought in Kosovo

Eugene Baranov, journalist

Yury Polyakov, editor of the Literary Gazette, writer

Ierodyakon Ignatius Shestakov

Over the program worked:

Casters - Dmitri Pisarev Dyuzhev and Elena

Chief Editor - Olga Lyubimov

Director-producer - Alexander Zamyslov

Editors - Anna Budanov and Xenia Luchenko

Dmitry Dyuzhev: "The Russian view on the problem of Kosovo" - the theme of our program today. I - Dmitri Dyuzhev, hello!

ELENA Pisarev: Hello, I - Lena Pisarev. The history of this region has more than one hundred years. And all these years, the peoples of this piece of holy land in the heart of Europe, as he could to defend its right to existence, freedom and faith. Today, after more than 600 years after the great battle of Kosovo, there remained only five percent of the Serbs. Of the fifteen hundred Kosovo shrines completely destroyed more than 150. How does this region, and what is happening there today, we try to understand.

ELENA Pisarev: He believes that recognition of independence of Kosovo and Metohija is unacceptable and is unacceptable for the Serbian government, whatever it was. I am sure that nobody has the right to control the edge, the birthplace of the spirituality of the Serbian people, and to this day is the Patriarchate of the Serbian Orthodox Church. I studio program "Russian View" the former Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Yugoslavia to Russia Borislav Milosevic

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Hello, Borislav, pass, please.

ELENA Pisarev: Hello, Borislav.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Mr. Milosevic, widely blamed your brother Slabodana Milosevic in the loss of Serbia, Kosovo and Metohija, where are all the same right?

Borislav Milosevic: "You know, to accuse Milosevic, it is as if, after his overthrow, a panacea for all ills. With regard to Kosovo and Metohija ... Slabodan Milosevic defended its country from the separatists and their people from terrorists. The fact that he resisted as if the Albanian fighters first, it is also absolutely historically untrue. In 68 году Tito there sent two divisions, two divisions, which themselves by their appearance calmed requirements. In the early 80's Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia declared a state of emergency there. Was done underground Constitution, Albanians held an absolute civil disobedience does not pay for the electrician for the Apartments for anything! So Albanian separatism in Kosovo has long existed. With support, it should be noted, other powers. Similarity greater Albania existed during the Second World War under the leadership of Mussolini. One part of Kosovo, which was connected to the great Italian .... So Slabodana Milosevic can not be considered guilty. He tried to keep Kosovo and Metohija as an integral part of their state. By the way, today we can see that the present authorities in Belgrade to be guided by such policies: they demand that even the recent Constitution adopted by referendum in Serbia, spoke about the broad autonomy of Kosovo and Metohija within Serbia.

ELENA Pisarev: Tell me please, is it true to say that the events in Raczek, after which the conflict began in Kosovo, and was just a provocation?

Borislav Milosevic: "You know, it was a battle between militants and our special forces, police. Then there were the examination, was a Finnish group, which found traces of gunpowder on the hands of those most innocent civilians, as claimed by Western propaganda. And soon spread throughout the world the news that it was the shooting of civilians. This is wrong, and I said at the outset that it was a battle between militants and our special forces.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: And you think it possible to accept the independence of Kosovo and Metohija?

Borislav Milosevic: I think that it is impossible. Can not so easily tear off 15 percent of the territory of a sovereign state, to give a national minority independence. What would we not say, anyway Serbia - the state, the Albanians - a minority, they have their own national state of Albania, as part of the Albanian people are living as minorities in neighboring countries, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro and even in Italy and Greece have their small diaspora. But I think that this will not happen. Serbia needs to maintain its sovereignty and territorial integrity, including the autonomous region of Kosovo and Metohija, which should be given full autonomy. That is the internal independence. Hence, they can choose all of its authorities, the executive, legislative, judicial, themselves. May have their contact with certain foreign countries. But to conclude international treaties can not, can not have an army. Serbia is just now offers instead a formula of the Western powers independence under supervision.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: This alternative ...

Borislav Milosevic: And without militarization. Western plans involve the creation of the Kosovo troops there, although small, but nevertheless, it immediately gives a negative point. It is not allowed any militarization.

ELENA Pisarev: Borislav, but in this regard, say, can be considered as Kosovo Serb territory, where there is, unfortunately, only five per cent of the Serbs?

Borislav Milosevic: "You know what, dear Lena, firstly, it is necessary to fulfill Security Council Resolution 1244, which defined standards for return to Kosovo and Metohija refugees, many of which, more than three hundred thousand. The first thing to do international, so-called community, is to return the refugees.

ELENA Pisarev: So I asked this question because I am concerned about the fate of these people who will go back, whether it is safe for them to return?

Borislav Milosevic: Of course, in these conditions unsafe.

ELENA Pisarev: And how is it possible to establish this situation?

Borislav Milosevic: Serbia pitiful remnants of Serbs live in ghettos. They do not even phone. It is a shame for Europe, for peace, for all of us live as those poor people!

ELENA Pisarev: And what can be done in such a situation?

Borislav Milosevic: The Security Council resolution is not performed on this day. And we must fulfill this resolution. It included even the return of Serb troops in Kosovo to ensure the protection of borders, to protect the monuments.

ELENA Pisarev: And how to do this technically? Because one thing - Resolution, another thing is how little is done, if it is so dangerous?

Borislav Milosevic: Listen, we must take such measures! And the international community does not. It does not want, simply!

ELENA Pisarev: And if the international community wanted to, it would be possible to do?

Borislav Milosevic: Naturally, it would be possible. But if you do not want the international community, it only can to force separation of Kosovo from Serbia, but it would be fraught with problems large and the long term. And then, excuse me, it will be a huge precedent, worldwide! If Kosovo can be hotels, why can not Abkhazia, why can not separate Transnistria? Why the Basques do not get independence? Hundreds of examples can be all over the world.

ELENA Pisarev: Let's still a little bit, think about how this can be done technically? How do you imagine that you can see, the ideal way of return of Serbs in Kosovo?

Borislav Milosevic: A lot can make your brethren!

ELENA Pisarev: You mean Russia?

Borislav Milosevic: I did not say Russia, I am talking about journalists. They should create an atmosphere in which peace will be more conscientious, say. But Russia can do what Russia is doing at the moment. It requires going to the solution of Kosovo Metohiyskoy problems through negotiation. And the Western powers believe is already a fait accompli. That means we need to reach agreement on an international level in order to fulfill these standards, first recorded in Resolution: 300 thousand refugees to return, to return them to their homes, many of whom were burned and looted, blown up, restore our temples!

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Tell me please, but the Americans argue that if Russia will not interfere in this matter, then the war starts again. How can this be avoided?

Borislav Milosevic: "You know, it is simple blackmail, they say, that if Yugoslavia did not agree, that is, Serbia will not accept Kosovo's independence under the supervision of, then there will be conflict. That is, frustrated Albanians enter into conflict, and there will be carnage, and so on and so forth. But, listen, this carnage can not prevent the international community, or can? I think that maybe if he wants. But it does not. Because there rights of Americans and NATO. They used to say, or Kosovo, or the European Union, that is, Serbia will or there or there. Belgrade should put the question this way: either Kosovo or Serbia. Why did he have a European Union, and why did he do all these international institutions, if he has taken away 15 percent of the territory?

Dmitry Dyuzhev: And what's all the same interest is the international community in Kosovo, in such a small area?

Borislav Milosevic: There are so many factors. First, it is NATO's eastward expansion. Here I recently asked one newspaper question: why Russia Kosovo? It must be more to ask why Americans Kosovo? They have established their base there.

ELENA Pisarev: Borislav, sorry, but you answered the question why Russia Kosovo?

Borislav Milosevic: I answered that it was malicious question, and replied that Russia is right to seek a negotiated solution acceptable, including, for Belgrade. So I replied. And the West does not want. They should in fact meet all of its aggression. Now the naked eye can see that no humanitarian, noble motives are not guided by American bombers! This was a purely aggressive surgery: have there own databases to capture the territory, enter into Yugoslavia. A Slabodan Milosevic opposed to this. And now signed an agreement with the Americans, soldiers moved freely Americans for Serbia and all rights are. And they are protected, they are no one can apply to the International Criminal Court. They have a bilateral agreement, they practically do not bear any responsibility.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Borislav, tell me what the situation with the restoration of temples? Five years ago in terms of missionaries UN stood rehabilitate 48 Christian and 14 Muslim shrines.

Borislav Milosevic: They were doing something, but it's more ostentatious action than real. Treasures of medieval Serbian culture were destroyed, and the latest incident, in March 2004, they burned more than 15 temples. You know, I want one thing to say ... "Metohija" or "Metohija" - the Greek word. It means "monastery estate. So this land belonged to the Orthodox Church. In Metohija is from 1346 and still the residence of the Patriarch. This is Serbian land. Okay, now the Serbs were driven out, but then let back the Serbs, who want to go back!

ELENA Pisarev: Borislav, tell me what's on your mind, then still the case in Kosovo between Albanians and Serbs? Then, at the very beginning of the conflict. Still, you are very well aware of this situation ...

Borislav Milosevic: The unrest began after the Second World War. With these nationalists Yugoslavia fought to the 50-ies. Understand? Then I tell you, Tito there in 68 sent two divisions to threaten those who wish the Republic of Kosovo as the first step to independence. Then, 80's, so-called underground Constitution, and so on. And during the war was a great Albania under the leadership of Mussolini. And then, at 98, all spravotsirovali States ...

ELENA Pisarev: So, after all it was not a classic ethnic conflict between Muslims and Orthodox Christians, but it was still a conflict that was triggered from outside the United States of America?

Borislav Milosevic: Yes. But there were internal separatist tendencies. General, the Albanian people - normal people. Many Albanians wanted to preserve our state. The Kosovo Liberation Army killed not only Serbs but also Albanians loyal Albanians. Understand? In order to escalate the conflict.

ELENA Pisarev: And we know who funded this organization?

Borislav Milosevic: It was funded and on its own, and outside was the support and funding was from Albania, and the West. Now they say that now George Soros has invested in the overthrow of Milosevic Slabodana 130 million, is the American newspaper recently wrote a few days. And the Albanian diaspora in Europe has introduced a tax of three percent tax on all workers to support the development of this organization.

ELENA Pisarev: Tell me please, why in a situation where living in the Balkans and other Orthodox and other Christian nations, still under attack hit it the Serbian people?

Borislav Milosevic: "You know, the Serbs are the largest nation in the Balkans. And Serbia is well on the approaches to the strategic highways control oil and gas. 500 kilometers of the river Danube, Europe's largest artery, linking the entire continent of the channel system. So there are a number of strategic considerations. But, most importantly, I think it is the intention of the U.S. to expand NATO eastward. Why, do you know this.

Dmitry Dyuzheva: They got their way.

Borislav Milosevic: Yes, I have made. Serbia is not formally a member of NATO and the EU, but it breaks there.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: And we know how many Serbs still want to return?

Borislav Milosevic: In Kosovo?

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Yes.

Borislav Milosevic: Well, I just figure I can not say, but very many. Ibid their land.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Thank you very much for coming to us, sit down, please.

ELENA Pisarev: Thank you very much, sit down, please.

Borislav Milosevic: Thank you.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: He says he is not fighting with the nationalities and faith of people, he fights with the enemy. In Kosovo, he fought with the people who tried to defend part of its territory. He believes that there defending their homeland, although born in a few thousand kilometers away from this land. In the studio program "Russian View" Albert Andiev.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Hello, Albert, Move along, please.

ELENA Pisarev: Hello, Albert.

ALBERT Andiev: Hello.

ELENA Pisarev: Please tell us why you fought alongside the Serbs? After all, the Albanians say that Kosovo is also their territory.

ALBERT Andiev: If a man asks himself this question, it is in my opinion, is not a man. Why? Or do you do what you think is right, what you should do it, or not doing.

ELENA Pisarev: When did you realize for yourself that it's still a territory of Serbia, and you should be on the side of the Serbs, and not on the side of the Albanians?

Andiev ALBERT: I do not understand, I felt it. I realized that someone who wants to take something that he never belonged. And I was not interested in what kind of faith is the one nationality, or the people who want something to take away that he does not belong. I fought with the enemy. I am not at war with Muslims, Catholics or Orthodox. Because the identity of the enemy has no nationality.

ELENA Pisarev: And you remember how it happened, how do you feel? You have arrived there ...

ALBERT Andiev: I, frankly, expected that the first Russia will not allow to happen what happened in Yugoslavia, when in fact Russia is no obligation to Yugoslavia did not have. Yugoslavia was not in the Warsaw pact or alliance.

ELENA Pisarev: Nevertheless, Serbs have always waited for Russia's support.

ALBERT Andiev: To the Serbs, Russia - sir. They never say "sir", when they think about Russia.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Albert, tell all the volunteers who are fighting in the army, known as mercenaries. You got money?

ALBERT Andiev: And you do not see on my face that I earned. No? How much money do you see on my face? The only sin that I can not take my soul, is to kill for money. I can kill for free to those who deserve it. I am not a monster. But to allow someone made fun of someone just because of the fact that behind him is someone stronger, I can not afford. There is such an old Russian proverb. It is better to die standing than live on my knees!

Dmitry Dyuzhev: You stayed and now live in Serbia?

Andiev ALBERT: Yes. I've got a family.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: If there is a need, you will again go to war?

Andiev ALBERT: Yes.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: there is a lot like you?

ALBERT Andiev: I had the honor to be at war. I do not want to say that I love war, I do not like them. Because that war brings, and yet such a trouble, when you lose your comrades, but it brings happiness to know these people who were near me. These people I could learn only in war. After all, in times of peace you can live a hundred years with a man without knowing it. And here in a minute you find out who he was, breathing, and so on and so forth.

ELENA Pisarev: Albert, you remember the day when you went to Kosovo, under what circumstances was it?

ALBERT Andiev: When the bombing of Kosovo and Metohija, I just got up and went to the embassy. I was in Kiev, they summoned the ambassador, I said to him, or put me a visa in the passport, I'll go by the law, or I'll get myself in their own ways and I'll do what I saw fit. He looked at me half an hour, then struck a stamp in the passport, and I went.

ELENA Pisarev: Albert, and your family and friends did not try to dissuade you, it's still a very dangerous?

ALBERT Andiev: I still born in the Caucasus. My solution to the latter.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Thank you for coming to us, sit down, please.

The first time he was in Kosovo in 98 year. Since then, Russia's television viewers see what is happening in the region largely through his eyes. And he continues to go there several times a year and sees trouble brotherly Serbian people, as their own. In the studio program "Russian View" First Channel correspondent Yevgeny Baranov.

Hello, Eugene, Move along, please.

ELENA Pisarev: Hello, Eugene!

Evgeny Baranov: Greetings!

ELENA Pisarev: Tell me how you found the first time in Serbia and in Kosovo.

Evgeny Baranov: No single attitude toward Yugoslavia, I had at that time was not, in 98 year. Then began the conflict situation, I was 28 years old and I naturally wanted to go there and see what happens, shoot, thanks to the Embassy in Moscow, I was there. What I saw in Kosovo, in 98 year ... I have not understood then that is really going on, but the general feeling, which was then formed, not much different from what I think, I feel that after nearly 10 years.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: And what is happening in reality?

Evgeny Baranov: If you try to explain to his little son the meaning of "cynicism", then perhaps you simply need to show him and tell him the developments of this unfortunate territory. Unfortunately, the people who now think that they are sufficiently aware of the situation there, and the right to make decisions that do not understand. Ask a question in the eye and is full before you ignoramus. Total lack of any ideas about how to develop the history of the territory as folded relationship between ethnic groups. The fact that I myself was in 98 this year. But the question with which the soul are you going, what you see, they see your eyes!

Dmitry Dyuzhev: What is currently the most common misconceptions on the issue of Kosovo?

Evgeny Baranov: It is not even misleading, it is much worse. This is not a delusion, this game is called objectivism. For example, if applied to journalism, the Western School of Journalism shows that journalism is only journalism, when it is objectively and impartially, and shows the two sides. Behind this objectivism lies the most terrible thing that happens there. This is a complete lack of soul, full, 100 percent indifference. Because your eyes the terrible things happen, and you must remain objective, ie indifferent. And you're indifferent, and be treated equally to all. Another thing is that the Albanians they grew angry, and others simply do not give the opportunity to be aggressive because they ate almost. They left nothing at all.

ELENA Pisarev: Zhen, and never had you feeling that perhaps the Albanians, too, in something right?

Evgeny Baranov: They have the right to life, right to rest, the right to work, all constitutional rights.

ELENA Pisarev: This is a terrible shots from the Western media, when they said that the Serbs also allow the genocide against the Albanian people ...

Evgeny Baranov: First of all, genocide - it is a legal term. And in order to accuse someone of genocide, it must first prove. Experience shows that the genocide in Kosovo is the last eight years with the participation of the international community, in every corner there is a man with a gun, which is ... There is one very important thing. He did not raise a gun to protect people, he does not know who it is, Albanian or someone else. If people cut into your eyes, your function is to be a peacemaker. So you lift up your gun! Why did you get here? 17 and 18 March 2004 before our eyes, cut people, destroyed sacred sites, you can not imagine that happening, the human mind can not imagine that it is in the heart of Europe!

ELENA Pisarev: Zhen, but the Albanians, too, have a right to this land.

Evgeny Baranov: The rights to life, but not the territory. Let so. Here in Moscow there Cheremushkinskiy market, people have the right to trade, the right to earn money, right, I do not know, get married, have children, be fruitful, to build, want the mosque, like temples. But this does not mean that they have met at the Cheremushkinskaya market, raise the flag over it and say that this area of Moscow separated.

ELENA Pisarev: That is, in Kosovo was so?

Evgeny Baranov: In Kosovo, well, literally, almost.

Dmitry Dyuzheva: We believe that inter-religious conflict?

Evgeny Baranov: There is a mass of all aspects. I believe that this conflict. For us, for Russians, it is important to understand that there is not a clash of Islamic and Christian civilization, and the conflict of Christian civilization with some new, as yet quite unknown civilization. Civilization devoid of principle in general, which has no internal device. Civilization surprising cynicism, devoid of any kind was morality. And this is what awaits us all.

ELENA Pisarev: Jen, tell me how you assess how correctly Russia's media coverage of this conflict?

Evgeny Baranov: In many ways, we have a lot of the media. But the Russians have one sin, I do not want to accuse anyone, but he is all the same, in my opinion, it is a sin. People are trying to perceive the events happening to people, removing one of these events themselves, without passing through the soul, through the heart. And you see that your eyes is a disaster.

ELENA Pisarev: Eugene, why Russia Kosovo?

Evgeny Baranov: First of all, in order not to lose the remnants of conscience. This is the most important. Because I sometimes think that for us Kosovo is more important than for the Serbs in the situation that exists. Because, ultimately, it is technically the Serbs of Kosovo have lost, but we have not.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: How do you think that will, as events will unfold? Perhaps the return of Kosovo Serbia?

Evgeny Baranov: Well, it's from the area rather faith. I, as a believer, look forward to that return. Naturally, I'm in another can not. How technically do it, I do not understand completely. I fear that, unfortunately, do not see any peaceful solution to this situation. Must intervene kind of invincible force, to compel people who are all these things, in whose eyes all this is happening to both build its policy on the Balkans that they all ended peacefully. I sincerely believe that such force is being born here in Moscow. I sincerely believe, but

know, there are nuances ...

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Perhaps the Orthodox people should unite and help?

Evgeny Baranov: Orthodox people must think, think and feel, to pray to the Orthodox people. No need to collect battalions and divisions, to go there. Now through empathy and compassion to deal with them. One woman who was first expelled from Kosovo, when she was 12, and her family were hunted down by dogs Albanians, lived in Bosnia refugee. She lived in Bosnia, grew up there, then returned to Pristina, Pristina happened what happened, it is now in a refugee camp under the age of Pristina die, deprived of all, nothing. She said, listen, I have the power to make you do all the talking. It is strange that you do not have the forces to talk about it. Because you must understand that what happens to us, this is just what you cooked. And the fact that you save, it's only the power of the baggage that you carry with him from the Soviet Union. And this power can not suffice in some time.

ELENA Pisarev: Zhenya, we know that you took is a documentary film about Kosovo. Can you very briefly tell what this film?

Evgeny Baranov: In one word I can say. This film about Kosovo. This is a film about the pain, the lack of compassion, of callousness, of blindness. This is a film that does not tell how the Albanians slaughtered Serbs. This is a film about how everything can happen, what happens in front of people, and people do not see. I do not see not only in the West, because here, too. Grandma in some villages of Tver, on the basis of their minimal primitive ideas about what she saw there somewhere in the program "Time", will tell you about Kosovo, more than any sane educated person here in Moscow. The same happened in Belgrade at the time, when my grandmother out of some hole in the south of Serbia, could tell you much more than now can tell any of the existing politicians.

ELENA Pisarev: Thank you, Zhenya!

He is opposed to double standards and double standards. He was sure that nobody is allowed to interfere in the affairs of a sovereign country and decide its fate, declaring the country a zone of its interests on the sole ground that you are stronger. The studio program "Russian View" chief editor of the Literary Gazette, writer Yuri Polyakov.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Hello Yuri!

Yuri Polyakov: Hello!

ELENA Pisarev: Hello, Yuri Mikhailovich. What are these two moralities, of which you speak?

Yuri Polyakov: Double standard by which the West judges themselves and judge us. That, incidentally, what is happening on the territory of former Yugoslavia, just a double standard. Incidentally, Russia is also subject to this double standard. I want to remind you that it is Russia, or rather when the Soviet Union and Serbia, were the two states that are most severely, the most consistently and heroically, sacrificially resisted fascism. And it is interesting that those nations which now supports the Western community, just were active allies of the Nazis. And the same, so to speak, the Albanians, they still fought mostly on the side of the fascist bloc.

ELENA Pisarev: Yuri Mikhailovich, what you think, why such a position in Russia? Because after all we are, I understand, is not enough support for the Serbs in Kosovo, where only started this conflict?

Yuri Polyakov: The fact is that when this conflict started, Russia itself-it could not support, in this period we have the authorities were frank prozapadnonastroennye policy. It was then that they, incidentally, dealt a heavy blow to our military might. Only now we have to know the full extent of samorazgroma, who was then. And it was ridiculous to say at that time about some of its position in relation to the situation in Kosovo. We have something with her could not understand the problems. Now the situation is, thank God, is changing, and changing, by the way, in recent years. Because I remember that, say, when I became editor of "Literary" in 2001, we immediately began to write here about this situation. And we even on the front page was published the number of churches were bombed in Kosovo. We then were practically the only publication that wrote about this.

Dmitry Dyuzheva: And you went there?

Yuri Polyakov: Yes, I went there. This was in 2003 with a delegation from the Moscow government. And we carried humanitarian aid, and, in general, there have been serious. And, of course, it was a shock when you see their eyes blown temples early Middle Ages. Mutilated wall, the rest of the temple, and on it the remains of the frescoes with Virgin, and Virgin have gouged his eyes!

ELENA Pisarev: Yuri Mikhailovich, with regard to the Albanians. Do not you think that the Albanians themselves have become a victim of provocation on the part of America, for example, or Europe?

Yuri Polyakov: You know, there has already been said about this, but I want to once again here to emphasize this point. Yes, this is a conflict between civilizations, you know, this is a conflict between civilizations! And we have to decide for themselves, we still live in a period of high development of human civilization, or we returned to the Middle Ages, when the number of solved all the spilled blood. Because inter-civilization conflicts will always.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Do not you think that there will be a peaceful outcome to this situation, because the Albanians have already tasted the joy of destruction of temples and suppress Orthodoxy, can not stay?

Yuri Polyakov: You know, the fact is that if you believe that in Europe there is no hot spots, then you are grossly mistaken, they are many. Especially after the Second World War. This Sudeten region, is in Poland a number of areas where the Germans kicked it and the south of France, and Corsica is. But there they managed to solve it peacefully, though they live there too, it is hot enough people. Here is another point that has not been emphasized here. When I was in Kosovo, where I studied the history of the conflict, I simply could not yet escape the thought that, in general, quite seriously developed, well thought-out action is against the Orthodox civilization. Because we do, and Serbia is Orthodox civilization. And the same situation we have, incidentally, are now seeing in South Ossetia. And we must understand that in order to defend our civilization, our values, we must not repeat the mistakes of Kosovo. It is necessary to strengthen their own country, to strengthen your own spirit, and knew very well that the struggle between civilizations so as understood by the enlightened West, mercy neither we nor our spiritual, cultural heritage will not be.

ELENA Pisarev: Yuri Mikhailovich, and as Russia to defend its national interests in the territory of another state?

Yuri Polyakov: I think we should return to its influence in the world, to return it, of course, can only lift the economy and a serious attitude to the defense of the people. This is, thank God, is there. And then automatically to those people who are in orbit, Russia's interests, our historic allies will come under the influence of Russia's authority, as, incidentally, always was. In the 19 century, Russia had saved many Orthodox people, who were in bondage. During the Empire, there were instances when this was done without the use of military force. And in this period, by the way, and the Soviet Union was. So here it is necessary to strengthen the public spirit. And thus we, incidentally, help and Serbs. This people, heroic and unusually spiritually gifted, was in critical historical situation.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Yuri Mikhailovich, but still, that really we can do to send troops there, or start a war with America, European Union, what can we do?

Yuri Polyakov: Of course, bad peace is better than a good quarrel is understandable. But, you know, a few years ago, here's what happened, say, in Serbia, the same criminal bombing of Belgrade, it was perceived by Russia almost with indifference. And what is most striking, which has never been, our silent Russia's intelligentsia, which has always raised its voice! And, I think, to start, we still should not obscure this relationship. Should be a social relation, it is very important. Again, I stress that when we began to print at the beginning of a new century materials on the Kosovo conflict, Literaturnaya Gazeta was the only publication that openly supported the Serbs in this situation. That such a change of information policy, it is already quite a lot. Incidentally, there is change in information policy in relation to their own country, because roughly the same way as were the Serbs we have on television, mainly because same applies to their country. Now it is, thank God, is changing, and it would be good to change abruptly and quickly as possible.

Pisarev ELENA: I have a question to all participants in our program that can stop the conflict in Kosovo?

Evgeny Baranov: You know, that can stop the conflict in Kosovo? I think that for starters, you can try to do what we are trying to do a veto in the Security Council. Too many rumors.

ELENA Pisarev: What does it lead?

Evgeny Baranov: This will lead to the fact that through the Security Council will not be a new resolution, according to which Kosovo will be independent. Do not have illusions. Frankly, I do not understand the position of Europe completely, but God is with them. Next will attempt ... Macedonia, what's really funny, announced that it will be ready to recognize Kosovo unilaterally, on their support the United States, will be someone else, and further it will go, like a snowball.

Dmitry Dyuzheva: But still there were many examples of this, when America is not listening to the UN ...

Evgeny Baranov: The only thing that really needs to be done, it is necessary to speak about this issue. I do not advise the President ... I think it is time to talk about it at the level of deputy foreign ministers!

Borislav Milosevic: I agree with Eugene. I would like to add that much depends on Belgrade. Here mentioned the unilateral recognition of Macedonia. Belgrade to warn, and he warns that those States that have encroached on the territory of Serbia, they can not in Serbia to have normal relations. This must be frozen, can not prevent this.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: In this case, do not get it, that Kosovo Serbs will remain without a formal part of the state?

Borislav Milosevic: "You know, the formal part of the state, it is still maintaining the sovereignty and territorial integrity. Kosovo and Metohija will have their autonomous rights. But this does not mean that they can do some things, some of which are allowed to sovereign states.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: But is obtained Kosovo without Serbs ...

Borislav Milosevic: I spoke here a couple of times that we must implement the standards and requirements of resolution 1244. It can not the Security Council, without fulfilling its own resolution, to put it in the sewers and take another. Perhaps all Americans ... They can be avoided, of course, the Security Council. But this can not be allowed.

ELENA Pisarev: And you trust the Security Council?

Borislav Milosevic: No, I do not trust the Security Council. But I would be the policy of Russia at the moment of trust. I trust your country and hope that Russia will take what you need. Here Eugene said he would veto. I personally think that there would be such a situation. They'll find some other, perhaps, ways. But it is necessary that the Serbs go back. Not all but most. Then it has to be some balance there. I personally thought about partition of Kosovo and Metohija ... But I think that Belgrade that he could not say. It can not. I think, were quite large reputable statesmen offering such solutions. A Kosovo, you understand, please, for Europe is very, very important. And I do not understand Europe. Why is it all? You know, there was a German chancellor, "Iron" Bismarck, who said that it is very important that the Balkans had no peace, that there were conflicts. Because it is straining our opponents. Understand? Then, write about it, it's not my opinion, this write-known writers ... For America, Kosovo is a sort of proving ground, where it can negotiate with the Muslim states. But in Kosovo, they can make some concessions and to ensure that the Muslim world it was interesting. There are many components, and it is not easy. And Europe, I say this in public, participating in the bombing of Kosovo, bombed its territory. These temples, built in 1400, these monasteries, churches of the Middle Ages! Europe destroyed its own cultural heritage, bombing bridges on the Danube - the same ...

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Yuri Mikhailovich, known conflict in Transnistria, Abkhazia ... traces the parallels with Kosovo?

Yuri Polyakov: No, there is a parallel can not be traced. This resemblance. Because in fact we're talking about something else. There, people who originally lived in these territories, century and millennium, lived, and completely random coincidence, historically became a part of Moldova and Georgia ... And here that, in this territory and the Serbs lived before our eyes there is substitution of ethnicity, there accurately the example was given to the central market, which, incidentally, was demolished. If you take the example of Georgia. Georgia seceded from the Soviet Union. But Abkhazia and South Ossetia part of Georgia under the Soviet Union. Understand? And if Georgia refused to be part of the Soviet Union, then by all legal standards of international law can do the same thing Abkhazia and Ossetia. But here the situation is completely different! People were squeezed out first, so to speak, the decisions of the postwar. Wrong, when tens of thousands of Serbs who fled from the area, because they fought against the fascists, they were not allowed to return. And then there was this one, so to speak, a population drop. But it is terrible to say, the Serbs in this case suffered for what they fought against the fascists. You see, this is absolutely not true parallel!

ELENA Pisarev: Yuri Mikhailovich, do you believe that Russia's current government can somehow change the situation?

Yuri Polyakov: I want to believe it. And now that the last time our foreign policy is finally broken with this disgusting Kozyrev on all manner of claims, claims from the West to respond with the word "das", gives hope. Finally, we have reappeared own point of view, its interests, its allies differ from the Western allies, so in general, gives hope that we will emerge from this historical crisis and help him get out of our historical allies!

ELENA Pisarev: Thank you, thank you, thank you, sit down.

Dmitry Dyuzheva: Thank you very much, sit down.

ELENA Pisarev: Kosovo conflict is called geopolitical. However, many believe that his real reason-religious strife. What is the point of view in the Kosovo issue adheres to the Russian Orthodox Church? This we will talk with ierodyakonom Ignatius Shestakov, inhabitant of Moscow Sretensky Monastery.

Father Ignatios: Hello.

ELENA Pisarev: Hello, Father Ignatius. Were you in Kosovo?

Father Ignatios: Yes, I was in Kosovo in 2004 and lived there for about two weeks in the largest Serbian monastery, which is exactly in the center of Metohija, in the place where now almost out of Serbs, but where are the major shrines of the Serbian Church. I lived there for two weeks, talked with the brothers. I managed to overtake Kosovo, to see how people live, as the Church lives, in the first place, how active she is there. And make some new idea about this.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Still, it can be called religious conflict?

Father Ignatios: I do not think so. I think that it's still a more complex conflict. Here, in general, is the answer to this question was asked. Because the different estimates of the conflict, it is the overall palette. Here and national, and geopolitical factors, and cultural might, partly religious. But hard to say that it is a struggle between Islam and Orthodox Christianity, it would be wrong. Because, strictly speaking, the same militants - is not only Albanians are Muslims, but it is also Albanians Catholics. In fact, in Kosovo there is a Catholic bishop.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: This is not some kind of satanic start? ..

Father Ignatios: Naturally, this demonic force. But, of course, we know that this demonic force. It is clear that the tree is known by its fruit, it is clear that for this kind of democracy and a new state, which is based on the destruction of sacred sites.

ELENA Pisarev: Father Ignatius, and you can tell the position of the Russian Orthodox Church?

Father Ignatios: It's probably better to say about the traditional position of the Orthodox Church against the Orthodox Christians in the Balkans, because the history of our relationship is very ancient. Always Russian Orthodox Church and Russia's foreign policy in general supported the Eastern Christians. And we have always considered them my brothers, an integral part of our Church. Because the Church, as we know, Christ has no national boundaries, and all Christians, regardless of nationality is the body of Christ. And if one member of the body suffers, suffers and the whole body. Therefore, the Russian Church has always suffered along with the Serbs. In addition, we have a lot of connections, parallels in history. You know, the Russian Church was suffering from the Communists and the Serbian Orthodox church also suffered from the Communists. Therefore, this conflict for the Russian Church has always held a serious place. And then, perhaps, it makes sense to talk about how the Russian Church in general reacted to the war in the Balkans 91.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: And more than we are, we are Russian Orthodox, we can help this conflict, this people?

Father Ignatios: Yes, we can help is simple. In the 19 century, when there were large Serbian uprising in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and then a well-known Russian-Turkish War for Bulgaria's liberation, it was all quite literally. The media, the church in the first place, just the ads were full of various kinds of fees to help the brothers-Orthodox. There was, for example, kruzhechny collection, this is not some archaic ... You see? If now, say, in every church in Moscow to hang the box and write "for the suffering Christians of Kosovo and Metohija", and if everyone will give 100 rubles, it will be a help. Imagine how many Orthodox Christians living in Moscow? This will be a lot of money. And people need that really, people freeze in winter, they do not have electricity, they do not have health care.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: And you would be blessed so that assistance, which says Albert?

Father Ignatios: I am not at liberty to bless such things. Now there is no specific war-it! And so it is just maybe not in time. But, in principle, strong men can go and something there to build, for example, or help. You know, if this is something to do and it should be, first of all, ask the Serbian Church, if she wants to do so. Because it must be soberly attitude. That is, we must first have to ask the owners if they want it. And, of course, if they want, we are ready to assist. In general, it turns out, just maybe, it is not advertised, but the Church has always helped. There go the various priests from Russia, someone brings humanitarian aid, someone will organize any charges. When the war was, in some temples, some dioceses have organized the collection of medicines. In the information field, please, the Church must also be active. And she, in general, in force. And I can tell you that some of the church were the first media, which resets the truthful information about what is happening there. Maybe us were expecting something more, but we need to work on that!

ELENA Pisarev: I have a question for Albert. Albert, if you will need to go to Kosovo to restore the temples and monasteries are you ready?

ALBERT Andiev: Let's just say I would be a security guard, forcing churches to restore those who destroys. Must unite! Dmitry Dyuzhev: Father Ignatius, say, maybe this really the case that is united, and all Orthodox to solve this issue?

Father Ignatios: Absolutely. Actually it is happening, just maybe not to the extent to which it would wish us.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: All the same, as the representative of the clergy, advise us, ordinary people how to live with this? How to treat the Orthodox people to this issue?

Father Ignatios: Each in its place can be done. First, here spoken of, that information policy around this issue should be more serious. Must convey accurate information about it. Not necessarily easy for people to participate in any government programs, although the latter is also required. Anyone can help. For example, in Internet people can find the address of a monastery and sent liturgical literature. To do this, just go to the post office and send a parcel. The fact is that our problem is what? Hardened our hearts! You see, the Muslim world as a reaction to any event within the community? Somewhere something is happening, they immediately all together! And we do not react. It blew up, blew up here, and we ate, watched TV and went to sleep. Understand?

DMITRI: How can we still unite as we do so in order to be together?

ELENA Pisarev: And whether or not Russia do feel responsible for the brotherly Serbian people?

Father Ignatios: Of course, Russia should feel responsible, it is its historical vocation. Without this, it can not be Russia. I have already talked about this. Right now we are talking post-Soviet. It's all Russia Empire, you know, it's all borders Russia Empire, the boundaries of the Russian world, great civilization, which was finally formed at the junction of 19 and 20 centuries. The entire 19 century an important factor in Russia's foreign policy was the patronage of the Christians. Neither of which oil, gas, we did not talk, it is irrational moment, you know? And while Russia fought, shed blood, sent a huge help. And always, we helped all the Orthodox peoples. Just as we helped the Greeks in Constantinople. If it were not for Russian aid in general could be called into question the existence, preservation of many churches. Therefore, in my opinion, need to somehow come back to this mission. And that everyone can participate, not necessarily meet at any organization and infinite brotherhood. Please, anyone can go and send ten books! Understand? Not a few know that Kosovo and Metohija, in reality, a region in which the percentage of local schools, the most studied Russian language as foreign. On the humanitarian level. Now a year of Russian language, we must help the teachers of Russian language specifically in Kosovo and Metohija, teaching materials, textbooks all, anything. Because the Americans are doing in their sector, the British are doing, the Germans do, the French do, and we can do. Please, if we say that we have a year of Russian language, let us help you learn Russian language in Kosovo and Metohija. And that can take part of any person, any absolutely. You do not need to take any decrees or statements do officially. This can make any man. And of course, prayer, love for Serbia. Here, for example, was an action, when he came Serbian children from Kosovo and Metohija, we have lived in camps, rested, they were well received. So it can enter into the tradition. What a city can take patronage over some town in Kosovo.

ELENA Pisarev: Albert, you agree that such assistance is also needed?

ALBERT Andiev: I agree, but I do not agree with the year of Russian language. Maybe it's time to declare all Russian year.

ELENA Pisarev: We still have a year and a child. I think it is a question that everyone should understand that he can do.

ALBERT Andiev: I believe in it. But personally, I have people who are in Russian do not speak, but are more orthodox than I am, are more Russian than I am. In fact, buy the book. If this is the only thing you can do. You must not fight, do what you can, buy the book, grow a tree, and gather the fruit, went to children. And the children feel that your heart feels, they eat apples, and with them are pieces of your heart. So you tell them to share what you have in yourself, in your soul. By the way, I was baptized in Serbia. Here is the cross I bear, I will never take off. For me, that's a Russian view!

ELENA Pisarev: My friends, let us act, my friends, let us act!

Dmitry Dyuzhev: Thank you, thank you to all guests.

ELENA Pisarev: The Kosovo issue will try to close in the near future. Until recently it seemed that the fate of that unhappy land was sealed, and the people living there are doomed. Too much effort has been invested in this a very small piece of territory, only to leave this goal unattained.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: But at the last moment in the story we intervened. That is, we are. This was an unpleasant surprise for those who have all decided to have a 99-m.

ELENA Pisarev: It was "The Russian approach to the problem of Kosovo. Since you were Elena Pisarev ...

Dmitry Djuzhev: ... and Dmitri Djuzhev. More information about the "Russian View" on the subject read by our friends in the journal "Thomas" and the site www.foma.ru.

ELENA Pisarev: And at the third channel.

Dmitry Dyuzhev: See you next Sunday at the Third Channel